This is probably one of the only articles that I’ve felt sad writing, but there was no way around it. It is like when someone is trying to pull you into the mud, and you are just trying to stay out of it, up to the point that it becomes so annoying that you just have to go through it. Before you read this, let me apologize and express my sincere sadness in having to write it. These are not my thoughts or opinions. I will state facts here and elaborate a little about this issue, and I will let the people reading this be the judge.
As a company and a house, we have always seen the beauty in everything. We have believed in the good in people, and our work, passion, and art have reflected that to the heart, in everything we do.
We never say bad things about people, even those who say bad things about us; but when it comes to telling lies, making false accusations, and trying to sabotage and damage the reputation and history of a family-owned business that was built over hundreds of years on trust, honesty, and respect, then we have to reply.
It seems unlike the old days that our ancestors lived in and witnessed. Back then, Attars and perfume makers would meet over a cup of tea and share the best of their work and distillations. They had respect and admiration for each other, and they would never attempt to damage or sabotage someone else’s business or reputation with lies or false accusations. After all we follow the school of Al-Kindi, and Jābir ibn Hayyān.
Unfortunately, this was not the case with the "ouddict" forum. A forum that talks about oud and natural oils that are owned, managed, and run by vendors who sell oud and natural oils. Our utmost respect to many of the members or people on this forum, who may not be aware of this issue or what the admins and owners are doing.
And while we understand that it is totally and perfectly fine to promote and advertise your products, we do not think it is fine to lie to people and sell them things that do not exist or are not real. Unfortunately, not many people in the West are very familiar with the art of ancient Perfumery and Attars such as oud, Musk, and other natural oils. This subject is pretty complicated or new to some, and many are not very well versed in it.
Unfortunately, this has caused a few people take advantage of this beautiful art and use it as a way to make fast money. They are promoting things that do not exist and are trying to create some kind of a scheme in which people are members of something much bigger, even though they may not understand or realize that this thing is not completely true or realistic.
The story started with a few people making posts on this forum, asking about the genuineness and truth of our oils. This is totally understandable, since many of the oils we have are old and different than what is currently being distilled, and the majority of people are not familiar with them.
The admins of this forum made false accusations that all our oils are synthetic and fake, and that we are simply scammers trying to sell people things that are not real! This is also understandable, since the admins and vendors of this forum have not trained professionally in this field or maybe have not tried old and medicinal oud oils.
A few people contacted us, asking us if our products were real. Of course, as a company, we cannot simply make statements without scientific or realistic evidence; so, we went on that forum and very respectfully disagreed with the admins. We posted the lab tests of the oils we offered at that time. Those lab tests were conducted in a significant Independent USA lab, and were signed and authenticated by a PhD in chemistry, a certified lab technician, and a master Perfumist (myself). All three individuals signed their names along with a reference number. This is the highest standard of testing in perfumery accepted around the world.
Unfortunately, this post was removed and not allowed to be posted on that forum. We thought it was a technical issue, so we tried to post it again and again and again, and it kept getting removed. We took screenshots of this issue and informed the admins of this forum that if they did not allow the post that showed the lab tests, we would expose what they were doing. So, they finally allowed it.
(Here is a screenshot)
It did not end there. And for some reason, even though we had absolutely nothing against that forum, the vendors who sell on it, or the people who run it, it seemed that some of the people who ran that forum did not like us.
They started a cheap and sad campaign to sabotage our name and work. I am not interested in mentioning the names of those individuals or the companies and the vendors they work with, although this information is known. We also know where they source their oils and who they buy from. For us as a company, having been in this business for over 300 years, we have a good idea about who is making what, where, and when. Even though there is nothing wrong with it, and we respect all efforts and work that people do, the majority of companies and vendors on that forum or those using the forum to advertise and promote are simply resellers and not Perfumists. This means they simply buy their oils ready-made and resell them. Unlike us, they do not make their own oils. Our house fully and exclusively makes everything in our house for our house.
(Kindly note that we have never listed, sold or presented any of our work or oils in this "Oud Fayre" or any other Oud Fayre).
(kindly note that all our sandalwood oil just like all our other oils are not only lab tested by us, and comes with a hand signed certification that it is natural, pure and made in the highest standard, but we source and sell to multiple large beauty companies in the USA which their quality control enforce random and regular checks and lab test for those oils)
We listed a few items on our sites, like incense and agarwood, and again they started this sad bashing campaign. Again, we went onto the forum and respectfully posted the lab tests of exactly what they said was not real.
(it seems that the people of the admins of this forum had no idea about what was being sold or listed and talked about on that forum as you can see they didn't know the basic criteria for testing and the basic references for something like Kinam wood, which they were selling and promoting on that forum)
The funny thing about this forum and the people managing it is that they were throwing stones at a mountain when they were in a glass house. As a company that has been in this business for over 300 years, we have seen it all. We have made it all, we have tested it all, we breathe life and indulge in natural pure, authentic oils and Attars. This is what we have done for a living for generations.
So, when someone brings a false statement or something that is totally wrong, we know. Funny enough, the people on that forum were promoting and selling what they called "wild kinam wood" on their forum, through their vendors. Unfortunately, and sadly, many people fell for this, and they bought it. When a few of those people contacted us asking about "wild kinam wood," we told them the truth. We could not lie or sell something that was not real. Many of the people who contacted us said, "but the guys on this forum are selling it." This was really funny since, as a Master Perfumist and owner of this house, I am one of only a few people who consistently gets commissioned by wealthy collectors, royalty and leaders in the Middle East and Asia to source, buy and acquire the rarest kinds of agarwood, including kinam.
We posted all the details, secrets, and knowledge about this wood, taken from the most respectable and scientific references of agarwood. We exposed the truth and posted all the details, the way this wood is harvested, the time it takes to harvest it, the phases, the colors, the notes the details, and the locations, everything, including the price. And we did it with evidence, pictures, and scientific information, proving to everybody on that forum that what this forum was promoting, and selling was not real.
Directly after that, we got banned from this forum. We did not get the chance to reply to what people said or defend our company, name, or work in any way, so it was simply a one-sided conversation. Additionally, many of our posts have been removed, and it was done in a way that shows partial answers and posts to make it look like we did not answer or address the issues they talked about.
This was bad for many of the people and vendors on that forum, as they realized we had exposed the truth and that most of the people who they were selling to did not know. Many of those people left the forum and later sent us an email or message saying that they were grateful that we told the truth about this.
(we received dozens of those lovely and beautiful emails from people who previously used to follow and buy from that forum)
This led to some very cheap attempts from the management of this forum trying to buy oils from us and then simply filing claims through their financial institute to try to damage our business and causes us losses. In the majority of those cases, as a house that truly appreciates and values our customers and clients and puts them ahead of everything else, we apologized and responded that if they didn't enjoy our oils, we didn't think they should pay for them. We asked them to please send them back to us for a full refund. Even though our policy is very clear, as it is with all perfume and cosmetics companies; stating that these items are personal, and because they are applied directly on the skin and used directly by people, we cannot sell or resell items or oils that have been used or polluted due to many reasons, especially hygiene concerns that are elevated by the times we are living in right now. We knew what they were trying to do, and we still said that it was okay to return the products for a refund, but they did not want to do that. They wanted to keep the oils and keep the money, and then they went directly on that forum posting about it and getting direct and immediate support from the admins of that forum. Really sad and less than an ethical thing to do is the least I can say.
(this was simply fraud attempts and what was funny is all the orders that were flagged for fraud were immediately posted by the buyers on that forum)
(this is an example of what some people are doing, kindly read the details. They claimed that the bank refunded the amount and we were accused of Fraud but as you ca see below the person was flagged for fraud and the amount was covered under fraud protection. This usually happens when people go around buying from different companies and sellers and then just file many claims to simply get things for free or at least try to get it for free, very sad and less that ethical is the least we can say!)
Many members of the forum actually bought our oils and tried them. Some of them were well experienced in this field, and when they tried to post or mention their experience and comment, their comments were removed. They were banned from the forum, as it seems that there is a staged presentation to cause people to think or believe that false things are true and true things are false.
A few other artisan companies and small manufacturers of natural oils also contacted us, saying that they had experienced similar issues with this forum. So, in short, this is not an independent forum. This is a forum that is run by vendors and resellers or companies who are selling oud to the followers and members of this forum.
With that being said, I would like to simply state some facts here.
My name is Ali Attar. I am a real person; a few of you reading this may have personally met me, sat, and talked with me, which was my honor.
I want to ask: Who owns this forum? What is their name? Who are they?
Our company/ house is a USA registered company in the State of Texas with filing number: 803101553.
Our international trademark is registered under the number: 5677156.
We work and test our oils with "Univar Solutions" lab, one of the most respected and resourceful labs in the USA.
I want to ask what form of legal, structural, or physical establishment this forum has?
If you have ever bought anything from us, you would know that every single oil we have sold to date comes with a hand-signed, hand-stamped certification from myself personally, stating that it is "authentic, natural, artisan, and made with the highest standard of quality from the best materials exclusively and strictly from our house." This is not only a binding personal, legal, and ethical statement, but it shows that I have personally checked and certified every single bottle of every single oil that we have ever sold.
I would like to ask what kind of personal statement or authenticity this forum or the vendors or companies or sellers that this forum promotes or represents have, give, promise, or provide?
All the oils we list, and sell are lab tested in a major Independent USA lab. All the tests are performed by a certified chemist, a lab technician, and a master Perfumist (myself), all three putting their names and signatures on each test. Some of those lab tests are publicly available on our website.
Starting a year ago, we have challenged the owners of that forum multiple times to provide one single lab test for their oils or their work or their wood or whatever they are selling, or one single lab test showing that what they have falsely said about our work and oils is true. They said it doesn’t worth it! so we offer them 10000 USD publicly multiple times for a lab test of they sold as “wild kinam wood” and promoted as real and genuine lying and falsely selling to people. As of the day of writing this, not a single lab test or scientific evidence of any kind has been provided.
(this challenge is still there, for over two years now!)
(when the admins of this for said that were are lying and we don't have 10k for this challenge we posted this! that was of course before they banned us permanently from the forum)
Until this day, our house has made and bespoke perfumes for three sultans, two kings, one shah, multiple presidents and over 100 public figures including royalty, celebrities, and political and religious leaders. Personally, for the last ten years of my humble life, I have distilled, made, bespoke, sourced, and sold to multiple top-level experts, collectors, and connoisseurs. The latest was his Highness Shaikh Hamad of Qatar, whom I am grateful for, as well as for all the love and support from the great Qatari people.
I would like to ask what is the history of this forum, what are their accomplishments and who are their clients?
As a company and a house, we are the first Attar house to ever be presented in multiple international magazines. The majority of those presentations came after we had sent oils or samples to the editors or publishers of those magazines, or after the editors or publishers of those magazines had the chance to try our work or oils, keeping in mind that the majority of those people are familiar with perfumes and oils. This also includes enlisting us in the world's biggest fragrance database, Fragrantica, as well as other perfume databases; only after providing samples of our oils. Needless to say, the owners and the people running those databases are very familiar with perfumes and oils and many of them do this as a career.
We have been honored to be presented in GQ magazine (multiple times), Vanity Fair (multiple times), Traveller magazine (multiple times), Wired magazine (multiple times), Tatler magazine (multiple times), House & Garden magazine (multiple times), Health Fitness Revolution magazine, Cosmopolitan magazine, Voyage Houston magazine, Chelsea Life magazine, Mayfair Life magazine, Vogue magazine, and Shout Out HTX magazine, in addition to multiple independent blogs and articles.
I would like to ask where this forum is presented, or by whom have they been accredited?
As a company, our work and products have been reviewed by over 50 independent reviewers and collectors, of whom the majority are some of the best at what they do. While I will not go through each and every name, I think anyone can easily see this on our social media accounts or anywhere on YouTube. With that, I will state that we have never ever paid anything to anyone to say or not say anything about our work or oils. Each and every single reviewer or collector who has presented, mentioned, talked about, or reviewed our oils or work was totally independent, and almost every single one of them established the condition of having total freedom to express their opinions of our work and oils prior to conducting their review. We agreed each time.
One of our most recent reviews came from a man who we have not personally met but have lots of respect for. A gentleman who has been in this specific niche for over ten years, specialized and extra niche perfumes and oils, specifically oud. When we communicated with this man, he had one condition; full freedom to say whatever he thought, good or bad, about our work. When we agreed with this man, who lives in a country that has among the highest spending per capita on oud and some of the oldest and most respected oud and Attar companies in the world, the words he used to describe our oil were "this is one of the best and highest quality oud oils I have ever tried in my life."
I want to ask who has independently reviewed this forum or the products being promoted or sold on it?
As a company, since the day we started offering our work to the public on 8/8/2018, we had by factual numbers:
2- 1400 unique orders.
3- 2000 bottles or vials sold.
4- 1300 unique clients and customers from all around the world.
8- 6 fully bespoke perfumes and Attars for both individuals and companies.
9- 100000 USD in giveaways, gifts, and work for non-profits and donations.
10- 1 million dollars in total sales.
11- 1900 unique posts and shares on social media.
12- 13000 followers on social media.
13- 3700 conversations and questions answered.
14- 10000 unique messages and emails answered.
I want to ask, what does this forum have by factual numbers?
Finally, I would like to say that this is not just a business for us. This is our life, our work, our legacy, our passion, our history. This is everything to us. For us, there is a religious, spiritual, historical, and ethical responsibility and duty. The oils we make have a symbolic significance to us, as Musk is the scent of our beloved Prophet, Oud is the scent of our sultans, and rose is the scent of our women, mothers, wives, and daughters. This is always kept in mind with every single oil we make. Our work and oils must not only be authentic and pure, but made with this perception and expectation in mind, that we have had as a promise, a statement, and a challenge that we will always make some of the highest quality, purest, most authentic natural oils and attars in the world, just as we have done for the last 300 years.
I want to ask what does this forum state or stand for? As we have personally tested some of the products they sell or promote, I challenge them in front of the whole world to make that same statement that I just made.
- The Perfumist